New Lore Idea

Discussion in 'Player Feedback' started by Leo_Ziegler, Dec 25, 2016.

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  1. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    I have a serious problem with these new safe house rules. I want to take my cluster and leave the community, but have been advised and persuaded into staying by an admin, because of plot this or plot that, admin characters yadda yadda. I don't think it's fair that this means that the claim in front of my door doesn't protect my things when i'm offline, when I've basically been cock-blocked from branching off.
     
  2. Pann

    Pann Worst Admin Ever
    Take All My Money!

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    If that is the case that you have been persuaded by OOC means, you need to speak to me about it.
     
  3. Stotch

    Stotch Member

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    I like the concept of starting with thick forest, clearing the land of twigs, rocks and small trees -> Setting up the camp, creating perimeter fences, and overall starting small. I DO also like the concept of over time the camp gets stronger as more people come or as more time passes. I'de like to someday be able to create a camp with a sentry-esque tower protecting it, but that involves stairs, and for a sentry tower I would make a ladder.

    What I'm getting at is, will we ever get the chance to use sheet ropes as entrances for things like towers, and for locations that use ladders. I sure enjoy the thought that the ONLY reason my character is safe is a ladder between me and the zombies, NOT a ladder that is connected to a random floating piece of woood that wraps around the top floor of the building I live in.

    Sheet Ropes for resonable accessiblity!! And not for Metagaming purposes of having a super base.

    Stotch can dream someday he'll be the sentry of a small camp crew.
     
  4. weirdpanther

    weirdpanther Member

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    Now that sounds fun!
     
  5. Stotch

    Stotch Member

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    I would be, could be, and should be, but can't. Teh rules stop me from doing such as people in the past have screwed it for us, and now it's baby sitting style.

    I realised something earlier today.
    The lore, the server, the actual game is based in Kentucky.
    There's a shit ton of forest in Kentucky.
    The rules say no forest fuck shacks yadda yadda.
    But we're in forest ville Kentucky.
    Hypothetically many people would take advantage of that, it a situation like the zombie apocalypse, HELL! I sure know if this great horror concept ever managed to fabricate itself into reality, I'm taking supplies, driving North East to 'even more' buttfuck nowhere in the mountains, building a tree house/campsite, and shooting any tom dick and dead jerry who comes near.

    We should in some way shape or form encourage 'realistic' camps in the VAST forest that Kentucky has, and making the few towns we have the DANGER ZONES the places people go for risky supply runs, the places bad guys take your last Easy Mac box and maybe take your life, the places people have to trek through to achieve contact with the group you heard of far north on the radio.

    UGH AGN should be transformed into Medium RP. Create the Canvas, Allow the Creativity, and Banish the Rule breakers. CCACBR Cunts Can Actually Create Bad Roleplay "H"ere And get away with it.

    At this point I know my statements are seemingly useless as what I'm hoping for now seems somewhat impossble with the way the community is now. Half want Blockbuster "Plot this, plot that" and Half want space for creative freedom, and there's only so much the admins can do with this being the situation.


    How to balance world?
    Pleayse Halp

    Stotch Cries....
     
    #85 Stotch, Dec 29, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2016
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  6. Jack Bauer

    Jack Bauer Active Member

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    What if players used their creative freedom to make plots. I know if I was on the server I would be playing my cannibal chef. Maybe people who make plots are actively discouraged somehow. Because I definitely remember a lot of creative RPers who used to make bastions of roleplay. Ardrique(SP) being a good example because he would always set up different bases around the map dedicated to different zanny causes.

    New Dawn existed for a long time, and was quite successful. Without a weekly or even monthly admin event, everything in roleplay involves imagination. So why on earth would you want to cut the very thing that makes roleplay even possible.

    Without imagination you are one of those people who looks at people who roleplay and wonders "WTF are these people crazy?"

    Fake and staged RP is plastic, if you've got plastic people living in a plastic world you are going to have plastic emotions. Perma-death gives the game a certain rush that makes it unique and addictive. You want the game to inspire real emotions in people, because that's what makes the game fun. In all it's pixelized glory.

    Think of it like art, art is love and loss. Art can just be love alone, but that lacks depth. If your RP server is nothing but love and very little loss, you are not doing the arts any service. Sure maybe you feel loss for your imagined character's family they lost. But I'll tell you one thing, if you actually have someone in game who is supposed to be your son/daughter/addoptedrabbit and you RP with them for an extended period of time protecting them and something happens to them? That's a feeling of /real/ loss, real emotions.

    Is it good to feel sad when playing a video game? Probably not, is it good to feel real emotions when it concerns art and roleplay? Some could argue yes and no. But do the real emotions make the storyline intense, the game addictive and the server fun if not occasionally frustrating? Yes.

    So who does the server belong too? Artists, ERPers, Bandits, People just trying to get by, People who join a special club? That's for the server to decide, I just hope you folks can make the right decision.

    Also new lore should be Fall Out themed.
     
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  7. VCarrasola

    VCarrasola Master of the Crops Nation

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    Too long, didn't read. But again I agree with the last line.
     
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  8. Devon

    Devon The pirate droid
    Take All My Money! Contributor + Contributor

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    For what it's worth, and ironically, I feel this is why having more definitive mechanical rules in place is a good thing. By drawing a line in the sand, it'll give people more freedom to express themselves however they want.


    Hear me out before grabbing the pitchforks.


    >>If everything is controlled by text and imagination, every player's idea of the rules, the server's reality and what "good RP" is will butt heads.<< Yeah, there's definitely bad RP, but when everything is controlled by text, everyone is right. Everyone is also wrong, and there's no definitive point where the system says, "look, it doesn't matter. Dead is dead. Robbed is robbed. Laws of nature. Sorry, but you're screwed."


    In a perfect world, we'd have a AAA 60$ Steam game with awesome RP support, great anonymity tools, Dungeon Master support with dice, multiple chat logs, voice scramblers, planes, trains, lasers, etc. We don't. We've got PZ's shitty chat system. We've also got several RP rule sets to try and keep things as interesting as possible. The game just doesn't support text-based PvP, and other RP things, very well.


    We've got to remember, there was a time where Tibby instated the equivalent of martial law on the server. It felt restrictive to have a "dead is dead, stop spamming revive tickets" rule, but damn if it didn't make things interesting. Last lore, some of the best RP happened when fantastic characters bit the dust. A lot of last lore is a blur, but those high points will always stick out to me as an RPer, as a gamer, and as a community member.


    I like freedom. I don't care if players want to play solo, log in only to loot , ERP, make family stories, make art, practice writing, rob people, eat people, or whatever. I do think there should be strict mechanical boundaries which apply to everyone, though. There's just a lot of creativity going around, and everyone has a different idea of what creativity is. You're a real bastard if you think your idea of art is better than another's. The real win zone in online RP is to make an environment that is fair, somewhat flexible, but also has a cut-off point. That, and not having pistol snipers, psychic Cloud Strifes who throw cars, etc. etc.


    I also think we should be allowed to explore the great outdoors with building. Maybe not massive Lost Boys forts, but maybe a lean-to or something. I really like the idea that the wilderness is scary. Hell, if you're brave enough to be a backwoods hobo, you should be awarded with the rush of being a hobo who can get robbed or toasted at any moment. But I feel the over-application of building rules might choke the creativity eventually. Fortunately, it seems like that stuff is going to be watched and adapted. So cheers to that. It's all a process.


    Everyone should be allowed to be creative. Sometimes, hard-ass rules help creativity thrive. Paintings need frames.


    P.S: This can easily be an unpopular opinion. I love you all lots, and I love playing with each and every one of you. Keep being creative, and do fun / whacky / cool shit. That's why were, like, here man. To have fun.
     
    #88 Devon, Dec 29, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 29, 2016
  9. Jack Bauer

    Jack Bauer Active Member

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    This was something a lot of players was talking about last lore, people would talk shit on mechanics but it was like the in game representation of reality where it isn't based on rolls or emotes but on real things.

    The rolls already exist in game via formula's and mechanics. For example every time you fire your pistol at someone, it's a percent chance that bullet actually hits. That is the roll, we don't need situations where someone is running and they have to beat 15 rolls in order to escape.

    Also mechanically and emote wise, according to emotes lots of characters are impossible to trick and supreme. Mechanically they're none of those things. Mechanically they're clumsy and make lots of mistakes just like real people. They can die in a hail of pistol fire at any time and it is quite a frightening way to live.

    Mind you, back then people were hacking and boosting aiming up to level 10, now with less hackers. Maybe mechanical playing can once again surface?

    A good example of mechanics versus emotes is one time I was going down the street and someone came out of the forest with a shotgun and started KoSing at me, I ran away and they missed two shotgun shots because in the sudden surprise of the moment they musn't have clicked on my character properly and made proper shotgun shots.

    In emotes? I'd have been just blasted away because text is infallible. You can just type someone right into a cage, but mechanically? That is what lets real strange things happen, that's when spectacular moments can happen where someone can be that super-star running away from people in real time. But if you get dragged down with emotes, what could be a heart racing escape ends up being one person slowed down with having to type and emote battle. Than that persons whole team catches up in the type time and you are instantly dead.

    Some people would demand you type everything out, those people don't play bandits. Mechanics exist so I don't have to paint a picture of everything I am doing. That's the difference between completely text based RP and in game RP, game mechanics.
     
  10. Devon

    Devon The pirate droid
    Take All My Money! Contributor + Contributor

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    The new / upcoming tools, hopefully, are going to make backup saves, stat grinding, and the other exploits useless, which is good. Assuming admins will be able to check your character out, they'll be able to make sure you're not mech-grinding aim 10 as a one-handed farm boy holding a shotgun. That's a huge step towards decent mech pvp, imo.

    Obvs we need an elder scrolls style of mech sneaking. They'd never find the sneak / nimble 10 plumber standing right in front of them.

    [​IMG]
     
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  11. Phobia

    Phobia Member

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    Mechanically, I can remove a bullet out of my own skull, sew the wound up, eat a snickers bar, and be at full health in less than a minute. Mechanically, I can carry a forklift with everything I own up the steps of a five story building, then rappel down a sheet suspended by a single nail.

    Game mechanics are inherently unrealistic and favor those with fancier computers, faster connections, and personal time sunk into the game rather than the character. I do not want Comcast to determine if my character lives or dies. I want her actions, her choices, and her world to determine that, and we as a community are more equipped to handle creating that scenario with words than all the ones and zeros in the game's code.

    The greatest issue text based fighting has is it relies on all participants being mature, logical, and agreeing about the path of the story. Accepting that game mechanics should resolve conflict means accepting that we cannot be trusted to do it ourselves. And that is disappointing.
     
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  12. Jack Bauer

    Jack Bauer Active Member

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    The other issue with text based fighting is you have five minutes to decide exactly what you are going to do to make your inescapable trap remain that way. It's almost like an art of just layering text over text over text of typing weirdly worded phrases and emotes that are almost impossible to dodge or have miss or are just stupidly power gamy or the person just RP text fights at a third grade level.

    Mechanics are dark, they're grim meat-hook realities. When you are in character and you are pointing your gun at someone else, you know at any instant it can lead to violence. Someone might fire early, a distant gun shot might set people off. They might run and you might hesitate for a moment long enough for them to escape.

    It gives you an OOC rush, because that's what perma death provides. The rush of life and death at any moment, and your choices determining if you live and die. You remove the violence and the death, it no longer becomes a way to see who lives and who dies. It no longer becomes about the choices you make. It just becomes a lame-o storybook campaign where as long as you remain within the lines you're character will survive the whole lore without any real problems.
     
  13. Wispear

    Wispear No.
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    First of all I'd like to say there is truth in both sides. Text based combat or actions provides an in depth image for those who enjoy the more in depth realisation of a scene. On the other hand, a mechanical fight gives the thrill of the unknown. Both give different types of satisfaction. And some people prefer one type, others prefer a different one. The PVP rules actually are something that I can absolutely agree with. Consent on what will be done then play it out as such.

    On a different note - I believe the topic was on a new lore idea - perhaps pvp debates could be moved to a different section as we are starting to turn really far away from the original tread.
     
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  14. Phobia

    Phobia Member

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    If you're writing with the threat of death removed, you're doing it wrong. You think words can't match the darkness of mech combat? Go ask George RR Martin what his characters think of that. What we are doing here is telling a communal improv story, and the nature of the medium we have to work with means it is primarily a written one. If you are not willing to allow your characters to go to a dark place, to bleed and suffer and especially die, you are doing it wrong. I have seen players put their characters through hardship and tragedy, not because of the speed they could click a mouse button, but because it made for a better story. Those are the players I want to play with. Those are the players I aspire to be like.

    People who write without the threat of death does not mean writing itself is bad, it means those people are bad writers.
     
  15. Pann

    Pann Worst Admin Ever
    Take All My Money!

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    If we only focus on a new lore idea, I should close the thread. I have made it clear I do not intend on there being another lore, at least for a VERY long time. We will repair the lore we have.

    As for the other topics, we CAN make others, as I have been reading these. The only major rule that I have left to work on is the PvP rule. And boy, its a tough one. I for one am up for allowing the decision among players to CHOOSE which combat they want, but there needs to be a default combat method, and there needs to be rules around both methods that are overlooked. I intend on fixing both of these issues.

    Will it make everyone happy? No. But I will do what I feel is best for the server, as I always have.
     
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  16. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    I would really prefer mechanical combat, and not needing to OOC agree/discuss the PvP as I think the element of surprise can be lost. Just being required to RP at least a few lines of dialogue or emotes, that are somewhat indicative of your intentions.
     
  17. Tucker

    Tucker The Canadian Moose
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    I'm all for a hybrid! Though personally a hybrid that leans a bit more on the text side of the spectrum. I get the whole thrill for all out mechanical Pvp and I FOR SURE get the whole draaaaaaging out part of ooc debates while doing text Pvp. But a couple things nag at me.

    1. Game mechanics don't give a shit about your characters past or whatever condition (mentally or physically) they're in. An old man with nerve damage could have the same accuracy as an everyday person just because of game mechanics.

    2. Skip of the lovely, gory and blood filled details of writing out Pvp...

    *The bullet tore through Olivers rib cage and lodged itself into the edge of his heart. The man falls to his knees, gasping for air as he clutches his chest. Blood blossoms out and across his shirt as he breaths his last breath*

    It's some fun af shit, like I had fun writing that even though Oliver meant shit all to me.

    3. Arguing /after/ the fact. We all argue about the deaths of characters and blah blah blah. I've noticed like everyone else that's done text Pvp, that it can drag out due to ooc arguements during or right before the scene picks up again. But I've noticed a couple times after a mechanical Pvp fight is finished that arguements and salt is thrown /after/ the fight. Maybe I'm seeing this in the wrong light, but that's what I've found.

    ANYWHO...
    I'd prefer a hybrid of the two. Cause I don't think I could ever really enter the realm of Mech Pvp entirely.
     
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  18. Waffle

    Waffle Well known member

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    This is tough. I, personally always leaned towards text. Combat through mechanical means is more of a draw on the players part, and the player should be as far off as they can be when it comes to role play. (By that logic, we should remove fighting zombies mechanically as well.)

    But, knowing what I have seen and experienced, I can't agree with text, and I agree with mechanical more than text. This community is filled with players who idolize their characters, and who go out of their way to insure survival. Phobia, you mentioned George RR Martin and I thought it was a wonderful example, but we are not George RR Martin. We are not writers, not yet, and these characters are simply not as well written or put in an equally thrilling world. Our characters, are rather flat, and our world, is boring, or at least it is in my eyes. I cannot trust a community member to engage me in text combat because I know that it will not be written as well as I want it to be, and the favors will slip onto their side. Example:

    Character 1: He hits the woman over the head with the lamp.
    Player 2: (How is he close enough to reach the lamp???)
    or
    Character 2: She does not pass out, but instead keeps on fighting.
    Player 1: (What the fuck. She's one hundred pounds and should be out cold.)
    There are too many 'what if's,' in text combat and we are not equipped to handle it. It's simple, because as stated above, an admin would have to be called over, and possibly research if this object would actually knock out this woman. And the player that got the stick might go on the forums and start a rampage. You may think that is dramatic, but I have seen it more times than I can count and it is far more likely to happen than an easy, respectable death of a character.

    Mechanical combat is something I feel we can try, at the very least.
     
  19. Leo_Ziegler

    Leo_Ziegler Member

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    Like Tucker said, a hybrid of the two would be way better.

    For example, player 1 and player 2 aim their guns at eachother and such.

    player 1 types, *He firesthe rifle in the direction of player 2*

    Once typed, describing him shoot, player 1 mechanically firesand if the bullet mechanically hits player 2, then player 2 will have to rp the injury. If the bullet misses, Player 2 has aan opportunity to rp shooting his gun or running to cover.

    Does that make sense? Not sure if I explained it there good enough
     
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  20. VCarrasola

    VCarrasola Master of the Crops Nation

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    I though it was common sense? We did not have a rule when I started playing, or two lores ago. I just remember typing *fires his gun at X* and the gunfight would start, the text being the warning. Now, for melee it'd be the same, it's just that some people would choose to text RP it.

    And that was fun.

    The best is just roll with the mechanics, roleplaying the environment. I read that 'there are things unrealistic about mecha, like holding big things or yadda yadda'
    Come on guys, that's common sense TOO. We're in a roleplay server and if something is too far from reality, don't do it. Don't keep a wagon in your bag, that's bullshit.
    And about wounds?
    P L S
    WE WILL NEVER REACH COMPLETE REALISM WITH WOUNDS. Because it all depends in too many factors. People might die OOCly from a single punch in the head, as well as someone might survive a shot in the chest by miracle. If you don't kill the person mechanically and that person roleplays the wounds properly, you CAN NOT force them to die.

    And there is sooo much... I have an excuse for pretty much everything!

    And no, I don't find text RP fun unless it's in a table RP - not in a game about dying in matter of seconds. Don't bring that "it's intense and blablabla" or that it "is more detailed and more rich for roleplay and hasgsjhsaj" THAT IS NOT FUN PLEASE STOP YOU WON'T CONVINCE ME BECAUSE I'VE SEEN SO MUCH BULLSHIT THROUGH TEXT FIGHTS IN THE PAST THAN I KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT

    Sorry, I kinda hyperventilated
     
    #100 VCarrasola, Dec 30, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2016
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